Dramas of Domesticity
I'm thinking about starting an irregular Friday thing, a Good Form Guide (thanks James Valentine of 702 Sydney) kinda thing. About the issues of etiquette I have to deal with all the time, and that leave me floundering, terrified of doing The Wrong Thing.
The first issue I'd like to have clarified is this:
If you had invited a number of people to a restaurant to celebrate someone's, say, 9th birthday... Are you expected to pay for the entire group of 24? Bearing in mind that this 24 consists of 2 sets of grandparents, 1 set of uncle/aunt/cousins, 1 Random (Sorry J - until he puts a damn ring on your finger, you'll be classified as a random. I can hardly put Future Sister In Law, because that's presumptuous...) 1 set of Family Unit Friends... and 5 small (unattached) children.
Because I had assumed that we would be paying for the kids (who had been invited to the party - this includes the kids of the Family Unit and the cousins). But MrB assumed we'd be paying for the ENTIRE group. Because it's rude to invite someone to a restaurant and then expect them to pay for themselves...
But based on previous experiences, there is no hard-and-fast rule here...
If I we go out with my family, my Dad usually ends up paying for the lot (after some awkward getting out of wallets, sighing etc...) This is even when my brother, who earns more than ALL of us put together is joining us...
If we go out with MrB's family, we all chuck in together, or split the bill 3 ways...
(Oh! Except this one time when MrB's brother took us out for tea when we'd first come back to Oz - Told us it was their treat, so no issues there - we bought two bottles of wine. Only one was drunk - so my sister-in-law took the other bottle home with her as they'd bought dinner... Leaving me going "huh?")
Anyway - it's out there now - please help!
The first issue I'd like to have clarified is this:
If you had invited a number of people to a restaurant to celebrate someone's, say, 9th birthday... Are you expected to pay for the entire group of 24? Bearing in mind that this 24 consists of 2 sets of grandparents, 1 set of uncle/aunt/cousins, 1 Random (Sorry J - until he puts a damn ring on your finger, you'll be classified as a random. I can hardly put Future Sister In Law, because that's presumptuous...) 1 set of Family Unit Friends... and 5 small (unattached) children.
Because I had assumed that we would be paying for the kids (who had been invited to the party - this includes the kids of the Family Unit and the cousins). But MrB assumed we'd be paying for the ENTIRE group. Because it's rude to invite someone to a restaurant and then expect them to pay for themselves...
But based on previous experiences, there is no hard-and-fast rule here...
If I we go out with my family, my Dad usually ends up paying for the lot (after some awkward getting out of wallets, sighing etc...) This is even when my brother, who earns more than ALL of us put together is joining us...
If we go out with MrB's family, we all chuck in together, or split the bill 3 ways...
(Oh! Except this one time when MrB's brother took us out for tea when we'd first come back to Oz - Told us it was their treat, so no issues there - we bought two bottles of wine. Only one was drunk - so my sister-in-law took the other bottle home with her as they'd bought dinner... Leaving me going "huh?")
Anyway - it's out there now - please help!
posted by actonb at 7:59 am
16 Comments:
I'm of the view that even if you invite people to a restaurant, they chip in, assuming they are adults and have income. If it's a small group (4-6 people), then maybe you can assume the inviter will be paying, but anything more I'd assume the guests were.
In fact, among people I know, if someone has a restaurant thing for their birthday, even though they're the invitor, they don't even pay for their own meal. Everyone throws in an extra $5 and covers them.
My $0.02 (including gst).
2nd'ed Chesty. Dutch is pretty much de rigueur these days.
I'd also say that relative wealth isn't so important, AB. It is almost a status thing, and "Wise Sage Father" trumps "Overpaid Tosser" on this count every time; otherwise you'd be dividing the tab up based on taxable income. In which case OT would still come out ahead because he's probably an expert at tax minimisation...
I think dutch is pretty much a given when it scomes to friends, but sometimes family is harder to quantify.
In big family groups my uncle and cousin always fight over which one gets to pay (it's some status thing for them to show they are wise and virile men with wads of money and therefore excellent providers for their pride), but in smaller groups usually everyone just divides down family lines- my parents always cover my bro and I, my aunt and uncle always cover my younger cousin, my other cousin always pays for her kids. It's weird - friends seem so much easier to sort it out with than family.
Dutch unless someone insists on paying.
Oh and no anal bill splitting with calculators, thats the tightest of wads. Total price + tip divided by number of people (mountjoy - i know you'll be looking for the brackets to make that mathematically correct lol).
I'm personally in favour of the 'Add a tip, round it up to make it easier to split X ways...'
But the problem lies in the fact that here we have a clash... the InLaws/OutLaws do things differently.
Argh!
And it's not BYO anymore either. And therein lies another problem... Who's going to pay for wine...? And the thing is - it's not my family who are the picky ones...
Tip????
We aren't in the USA for god sakes.
Don't encourage that sort of rubbish. They give tips in the US because they pay hourly wages one step removed from slavery.
Over here, that rude bitch who asked me last weekend "Are youse two ready to order?" as she chewed her gum (yes, actual event) got my order, my contempt for her uncouthness, and the amount that was shown on the bottom of the bill at the end of the night, (which happened to be $35 less than it should have because the bint forgot to include the bottle of wine we had) and not a rupee more.
Tipping in Australia should remain the recognition of exemplary service, not be an expected additon to the bill.
Mountjoy - that's crap. Waitstaff here get paid pretty shit and they do a fecking shitty job at times of the day and night that most people would hate to work. If they're blatently rude, don't tip, but if they do their job and they do it well ... always.
And not tipping because your meal was late is ass too - since it's most likely not the waiters fault at all, especially if they're apologising and being good about it.
Anyway B - just be carefull of the tip thieves. Where you pass the bill around, and everyone throws in their bit and a tip, and the c*nt (I won't sully your blog, B) at the end adds up all the money and only contributes enough to bring it to the total on the bill, thereby effecively nicking the tips to pay for his meal.
Sorry Chesty, I agree with Mounty. I am happy to tip someone if I get good service, but I am not willing to tip sullen, moody or rude waitstaff. You're in the service industry - if you don't like people then get another job.
And I know customers can be arses, but I like to think I'm quite nice to waitstaff, and yet I still sometimes cop attitude. Not cool.
Keep that up and we'll be best friends soon, Mel. There's a lot of people on a lot of shit jobs getting paid award wages Chesty, and they dont get "tipped".
I get royally fucked off when I pay $35 for a prime piece of steak and am served a $4 slice of chuck steak; when one of my dining companions is brought his meal more than 2 minutes after the rest of us; when wine isn't cold; when I am served my main course as the entree dishes are on their way back to the kitchen. Dining out is a complete package, and if I am going to drop $100-$200 for the privledge, then all those things should be right.
The price on the menu is the price this is offered at. Should you tip your lunch bar man if he saves you the best slice of chicken loaf each day? What about the checkout chick if she doesn't twirl her hair and take three times as long as the register next to you to scan your groceries? Or the local petrol station because they always have the watering cans filled up?
I am not against tipping if the service warrents it. But I have a real problem with it being "expected", because I do not believe we have the same quality oriented ethos that you find in service industries in the US.
I just think a tip isn't given, it's earned.
If you all eat, you all pay. In my book it is as simple as that.
OMel - if you get sullen, rude or moody waitstaff, that's one thing - don't tip. I don't tip crap service. As a point. If you get someone who is doing their best to do a good job and serve you, then you tip.
Donnie - you make interesting points, but I don't agree with you.
And (tipping aside) it's not the waiter who decides how much you're paying for your $35 steak, or which cut you're getting. If you think the food is overpriced and underquality, take it up with the owner, who is the one making the decisions. Or go somewhere you actually like.
actonb, I'd say you pay for the kids and everyone else sorts themselves.
And Chesty my friends and I do that too for birthdays - heh.
Chesty - I love the 'everyone chuck in an extra $X' to cover the birthday boy/girl. It's so warm and fuzzy making.
Donnie - I will only tip if
a) we were a large group, and therefore relatively difficult to deal with
b)we had service that added to the overall enjoyment of the meal.
I never tip as a matter of course.
OM - We had a big lunch out with MrB's family, and split the bill 4 ways. MrB's mum&dad. MrB's brother/SiL/1 infant. Us- 2 infants at the time). MrB's aunt/uncle/3 adult cousins (who all drank alcohol) I stewed and seethed for weeks.
oa - Geez I wish it were that simple.
W - that's what I think, and I'm sticking to my guns...
Chesty - that lot reads a bit more "foreceful" than it was intended. Just an opinion, that's all.
And of course, at the end of the night, it's your own dollar you choose to leave or withold.
I agree with Clarue here, if you were taking the kids only out (i.e. McDonalds type thing) then sure you'd probably pay.
But a restaurant for everyone, not just kids? No longer your responsibility to cover it.
I think.
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